Q. When did you hear about his
diamond skull piece?
JL. It was years later. Some
time in 2006 when a friend called me up and said “John, you
won't believe what Damien has done, he is doing a skull covered in
diamonds. It looks just like your work and he is selling it for 100
million dollars."
Q. What did you think about this?
JL: At first I thought it might be some kind of
a joke, and I laughed, then I read about it on artnet. I remember feeling
these mixed emotions, feeling a bit shocked, but simultaneously flattered
by it, then a bit
gutted and thought here we go again, even though his was different;
different materials etc. I mean diamonds are much more expensive
crystals than a urinal cake or Swarovski crystals, but the idea was
basically the same. A skull covered with crystals. The idea was
about overcoming death and immortality. Immortality is a subject
that has interested me since doing the cryonic suspension pieces in
1990.
Q. So you really
didn't care?
JL. Maybe for about
3 seconds. (Laughs)
Q. Was this easy for you to do at the
time when you saw his diamond skull?
JL. At that exact moment, no, but a
few seconds later I caught myself slipping and was laughing to
myself about it. The problem is
it's easier
said than done, because when you think that someone has taken something from you, you feel it
on many levels. Like I
said, it felt like a punch in the gut. It's a visceral feeling
besides the rational or logical component. It's
the reaction
of the
reptilian brain being activated,
which is primarily concerned with physical survival. It's like
the
Amygdala hijacking
of
your mind. It feels primal, like someone snatching the food out of your
mouth.
Q. Other than to grin and bare it, what
can you do if this happens to you?
JL. A few things, the solution is to
immediately accept it, no matter what it is; don't fight or resist
it, don't cling, but rather
immediately let go of the attachment to the work, idea or whatever it is. The best thing to do is
just observe it, witness it and not identify with your emotions,
your thoughts, reactions, instincts or your work and
know that one is not one's work. One is not one's mind or one's body. If you do that
and can truly see this, nothing can ever
bother you, no matter what it is. You are virtually untouchable.
Q. You suggesting to take a Buddhist approach?
JL. Yes, I learned
how to do this through Zen, also later on through Advaita Vedanta and
Sri Ramana Maharshi
self enquiry meditation, extensive fasting and other techniques.
This is what I wanted to say in the Times interview, but did not
have the time to say it all.
Q. Do you still practice
this?
JL: Yes every moment of
the day. It isn't practice anymore, its my nature.
Q. How do you look at it
now?
JL: With humor,
but in retrospect I see that it was a
really good opportunity back then to practice mindfulness and self observation.
The thing is, it's easy to do when nothing is going on. The real test is
when this sort of thing happens. You really get put to the test and
then you know where you are at.
Q. How did you feel
about Damien on a personal level?
JL.
I liked
him on a personal level and we seemed to get along. We had quite a
few things in common, he also liked Francis Bacon and he was a lot of fun to be around; very
funny, like a stand up comedian, also bright and very generous at times.
Q. What did you think of his new
work in general?
JL. Without commenting on any specific pieces, any way you
look at it, he has a good sense of colour, form, composition and use
of titles. I also appreciate his sense of humor. He has made
some interesting work.
Q. Have you ever tried to get in touch with him?
JL. Yes, years ago; a
few times by email and once on the phone. He answered the phone (his private home number which I had), but awkwardly
and uncomfortably said
it wasn't him. I recognized his distinctive voice and northern
accent. This was around 2001-2. Not long after the 911 incident. It
was a little weird because I thought he was joking at first by
pretending it wasn't him, so I started laughing, after I told him who
I was twice, but he may have been a little drunk and he awkwardly hung
up the phone.
Years later in 2006,
he replied back to me by email a couple of times through his
secretary
from his studio called "Science". I asked him to do an
interview for Heyoka magazine
about his new work in Mexico. His lamb piece and other things.
Q. What was his
reply?.
JL. His secretary said he was
worn out or words to that effect and was going on vacation, but she sent me an image of one
of his pieces (see left) when I told him I was doing a piece called
6 Easy
Pieces
about his and my
work. I later told him I would make up a mock interview about his
work. He requested through his secretary "please don't publish it", so I did not. Then
not too long after this, about a month or so, I heard
from a mutual acquaintance about him doing a skull piece with
diamonds. A year later when I saw the image, I showed it to some
people and it was unanimous.
Q: How does
re-visiting all of this make you feel? Does it
bother you? You really have no resentment towards
him?
J
L:
No, not at all.
It means absolutely nothing to me anymore. I wish him all the best.
I also believe in forgiveness and karma and not dwelling in the
past or the future for that matter.
The only thing about any of
this that interests me is looking beneath the surface at things
like karma, cause and effect, as well as why this was happening
in the first place. Knowing and seeing what this was
really about on a deeper level.
I look at this sort of thing in a metaphysical as well as a philosophical manner. These
things happen for a reason. Karma has its own laws, its own way
of sorting this stuff out. The best thing to do is to step aside and
allow it to do its thing and not to perpetuate or create any
more of it. This is why forgiveness is so powerful since it can
neutralize karma. Kill it in its tracks
Q. Do you think you have been
misunderstood?
JL.
What difference does it make. It
doesn't matter to me since I was not looking for anyone's
understanding.
Continue
.jpg)
.jpg)
